Anything wrong with playing your secondary as your primary? - Guild Wars Forums

elLOCOmutha · Sep 13, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

I know the obvious problems like attribute points, runes and primary skill lines,but dont you just want to try something new sometimes without making a whole new character?

Like with my Warrior I have had him since beta but sometimes I go with a build so I can use a bow. I get so sick of feeling like I have to be the first into battle..sometimes I want to be in the background.

What does it matter if it means your having fun right?

I was messing around on luxon aspenwood the other night, and used poisen lengthen bow with poisen wilderness survival skills etc...lol I havent had that much fun for a longtime. It was like I was a mesquito that kept biting the other team. Poisen here, poisen there lol.

I guess its a big no no to do this but what are your thoughts on playing your secondary as your primary profession?

I Mean I · Sep 13, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Loooooooong time ago an idiot thought the same thing he got he pve ranger and put him full blood magic...

He called him "Touchy Ranger".

Wrath Of Dragons · Sep 13, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

i give you a few examples examples

Warrior/ele nuker <---no.
Assassin/ranger barrager <----yes
mes/ele <---yes
ele/mo healer <----so/so
ranger/necro MM <---no

basically, choose skills that are within the means of your primary.
dont use high-energy skills on a melee class, except for specific purposes(ie. shock)
and dont tank with a squishie unless you are very careful (dark aura necros seem decent)

gamecube187 · Sep 13, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Some people say that you should only use a classes secondary to improve its primary skills, not teh other way around, but have you ever heard of a critical barrager (A/R that uses a bow and critical strikes) or a touch ranger (R/N that uses life stealing touch skills)? They are both very good and used a lot.(and according to most people noob builds because they are supposedly hard to counter, or at least the touch ranger one is....haven't they heard of mesmers and interupts/anti-casting spells?

)

It really just comes down to

Are you someone who is willing to try using secondaries more than primaries?

If you answered yes, then maybe you should look into it.

Zakarr · Sep 13, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Some professions are more suitable for different roles than other professions. Warriors have highest armor by default and least energy. Also their skills are mainly for melee attacks so there is not much options to use them at background. Using secondary as primary is sometimes good especially if you use also your primary profession's attribute. If you don't use any of them, secondary is just a weaker version of its primary profession.

vinegrower · Sep 13, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Look inside the CD case for Prophecies, you will find a warrior attacking a bone dragon with a bow.

dgb · Sep 13, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Personally I don't care what you do in PvE, it's your call.

In PvP it is really frustrating to see a warrior pull out a bow, or start casting meteor shower or any other such garbage. I don't have a choice about being on your team, at least do the rest of your team a favour by running a build that is effective. If you want to poison people, go a ranger. It will be far more efficient. Roll up a PvP character and play one.

If it's a character that is as/more effective as the primary, then I don't care, thumpers and touch rangers are good examples here. But I take issue with someone purposely gimping himself and his team just so he can see his warrior shoot a bow.

elLOCOmutha · Sep 13, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Personally I don't care what you do in PvE, it's your call.

In PvP it is really frustrating to see a warrior pull out a bow, or start casting meteor shower or any other such garbage. I don't have a choice about being on your team, at least do the rest of your team a favour by running a build that is effective. If you want to poison people, go a ranger. It will be far more efficient. Roll up a PvP character and play one.

If it's a character that is as/more effective as the primary, then I don't care, thumpers and touch rangers are good examples here. But I take issue with someone purposely gimping himself and his team just so he can see his warrior shoot a bow.

See, its people like you that will make me want to do it even more now. I have played with a bow only (as a warrior) and been effective and helpfull to my team. I figure I paid for the game I can play anyway I want.

Rolling up a pvp character is all well and good, but i play in aspenwood not random arena etc.

dgb · Sep 13, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by elLOCOmutha

See, its people like you that will make me want to do it even more now. I have played with a bow only (as a warrior) and been effective and helpfull to my team. I figure I paid for the game I can play anyway I want.

Hold up here, you post a question asking how people feel, I respond and then you say you're going to do it more because I don't like it? If you're not going to accept a negative answer fairly, don't post the question.

Yes you have an effect and contribute something. Nonetheless, you contribute LESS than a primary would and aren't operating efficiently, therefore wasting time for the rest of the people.

On your I payed for the game, I can play anyway I want, I can say the same and that means quitting whenever I see people gimping themselves intentionally by running bad builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elLOCOmutha

Rolling up a pvp character is all well and good, but i play in aspenwood not random arena etc.

You can take PVP characters to Fort Aspenwood so don't run that line.

lennymon · Sep 13, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

poison w/r? use apply poison and cyclone axe its just more effective -works great with victory is mine by the way-. You *can* be a warrior archer but the fact remains that it's significantly less effective than you can be as melee warrior. There are several reasons for this: no expertise/smaller energy pool/2pips of regen mean you cannot maintain an effective presence on the battlefield with a bow for more than a few seconds, with a maximum of 12 in any of the rangering attributes your damage per second will be lower if even just with standard attacks than with a melee weapon, warrior skills and primary attributes dont lend themselves to this build very well. In general warrior is going to be a bit less flexible in the playing to secondary profession topic just by its very nature of being designed to be the extreme melee class, only thing funnier is an elementalist with a hammer.... Warrior primary attribute is a tad weak in its intrinsic effects in some ways also giving 10% armor piercing just doesnt help if you aren't swinging away.
Many combinations however ARE very effective, and contribute to team function and effectiveness. Ranger's primary reduces skills energy cost and can be applied to many other professions (including warrior), necro soul reaping has some great uses, even rit/necro splody minions are really cool (great crossover build using animate bone minions, explosive growth, death nova, putrid explosion...) and elementalists energy storage and 4 regen pips makes up for a lot of things, just not good armor and standing in melee range. With the exception of the geomancer tank hmm...

elLOCOmutha · Sep 13, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Hold up here, you post a question asking how people feel, I respond and then you say you're going to do it more because I don't like it? If you're not going to accept a negative answer fairly, don't post the question.

Yes you have an effect and contribute something. Nonetheless, you contribute LESS than a primary would and aren't operating efficiently, therefore wasting time for the rest of the people.

On your I payed for the game, I can play anyway I want, I can say the same and that means quitting whenever I see people gimping themselves intentionally by running bad builds.

You can take PVP characters to Fort Aspenwood so don't run that line.

When you roll a PvP character, how do you get them to aspenwood luxon/kurzick?

dgb · Sep 13, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by elLOCOmutha

When you roll a PvP character, how do you get them to aspenwood luxon/kurzick?

Talk to the Luxon Diplomat or Kurzick Recruiter in Great Temple of Balthazar (it might be the other way round, Kurzick Diplomat/Luxon Recruiter).

majoho · Sep 13, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

As long as you're not gimping yourself I think it's fine - some combos don't make sense at all but other combos work very well.

Most of those using their secondaries well do so because they rely on the primarys primary attribute - as is the case with touch rangers and crit-barrage assassins.

Immaculata Regina · Sep 13, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

I had great fun using my Warrior as a minion master in the Northern Shiverpeaks, with a lot of effort I could maintain about 2 bone fiends.
It worked reasonably well against opponents who were 10 levels lower than me and was fun to play

.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 13, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculata Regina

I had great fun using my Warrior as a minion master in the Northern Shiverpeaks, with a lot of effort I could maintain about 2 bone fiends.
It worked reasonably well against opponents who were 10 levels lower than me and was fun to play

.

rofl.

you guys also overlooked bunny thumpers; you guys must not pvp that much to overlook that one.

However, Warriors are probably the worst to cross class with because they lose so much efficiency not being in the frontline, and their primary attribute does nothing to supplement other professions; in fact it's probably the worst primary in the game.

rangers work well using necro or warrior skills because of expertise, which reduces energy costs; hence touchers (scrubby) and thumpers (awesome).

elementalists do well using monk skills (heal party specifically) because they have a large energy pool to use the skill without burning up a ton of energy (ether prodigy ftw). Additionally, they can use expensive mesmer skills (psychic distraction) due to energy storage, which gives them a very large energy pool to afford the skill. Necros can monk (blood spike, Iway, etc) because with high soul reaping they trade efficiency for spammability due to the energy gained through dying creatures and spirits.

This boils down to a very important concept in the game: efficiency. How efficient is the damage or support you're doing? When you cross-class, which guild wars is very supportive of as a game, you have to pause and think "Is what I'm doing actually worth it?" if the answer is no, you should probably cut it out and go back to raging in peoples faces with a big piece of metal instead of poisoning people with a bow in low-end pvp.

I should also note Mesmers that use elementalist skills in fast casting, in their case they trade quite a bit of efficiency in both damage and energy in order to apply more pressure by reducing the long cast times of the large AOE skills.

Of course, in PVE go crazy; It's just pve, and anyone that takes that seriously has some issues, because PVE is supposed to be fun, not competitive. I know I got to unwaking waters about 2 days after factions came out, and I was the only person in district, so I had to get a team of henchies. unfortunately those henchies didn't attack that dragon very well, so I would use apply poison, hit him with the bow, then wail on the afflicted rushing me. I still failed, and that's probably because warriors suck at doing anything besides being warriors.

Hockster · Sep 13, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Apply Poison works with any weapon. Cyclone Axe anyone. :P

Saiguku · Sep 13, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I don't really care about Primary/Secondary, I used to play as a Ranger on my R/Mo and on my Rt/R. Like you said: you paid for it, you can play it as you want. Except: DON'T in Urgoz, I was on my Monk and we were looking for a tank. Ok, we find a Warrior and go...Only to find out 1 minute later he uses a bow.

Big_Iron · Sep 13, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

elementalists do well using monk skills (heal party specifically) because they have a large energy pool to use the skill without burning up a ton of energy (ether prodigy ftw).

QFT

While watching the playoffs I saw Eles spamming heal party in a couple matches and it seemed to be working really well for them. I forget the teams doing it, but if they were in the world championships, they must've known what they were doing.

Hockster · Sep 13, 2006, 01:07 PM // 13:07

High end GvG is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than PvE. You want your ele's to be dealing damage, or providing wards. If your monks can't handle the healing, find different monks.

Cebe · Sep 13, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

I feel that characters should be played as the player wants to...but if it is going to affect anyone else they should let them know. I have, on rare occaisons, been known to use my E/N to go MM when someone has been desperately wanting an MM in a team and there are no Necros to be found. I know I don't make a good MM...I don't expect to, hence I only ever do it when a group leader will not shut up about it. But Wrath of Dragons is correct with what they said in post #3...not all secondarys can be used as primary because it just wouldn't work. A while ago I witnessed an incredible sight. A Mo/W, in Zen Daijun, weilding an axe, tanking. Now, they may have been able to heal themselves but monk healers can be few and far between at the best of times...so behaviour like that is very selfish!

Personally, given the choice, I will always go with my primary profession, just because I chose Ele to play Ele...not to play Necro. If you're a Mo/W and want to tank...just be a Warrior!

Sep 13, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27	#1
elLOCOmutha Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ascalon City, Tyria Guild: Free Agent Profession: W/	Anything wrong with playing your secondary as your primary? I know the obvious problems like attribute points, runes and primary skill lines,but dont you just want to try something new sometimes without making a whole new character? Like with my Warrior I have had him since beta but sometimes I go with a build so I can use a bow. I get so sick of feeling like I have to be the first into battle..sometimes I want to be in the background. What does it matter if it means your having fun right? I was messing around on luxon aspenwood the other night, and used poisen lengthen bow with poisen wilderness survival skills etc...lol I havent had that much fun for a longtime. It was like I was a mesquito that kept biting the other team. Poisen here, poisen there lol. I guess its a big no no to do this but what are your thoughts on playing your secondary as your primary profession?

Sep 13, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55	#10
lennymon Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle Guild: Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	poison w/r? use apply poison and cyclone axe its just more effective -works great with victory is mine by the way-. You can be a warrior archer but the fact remains that it's significantly less effective than you can be as melee warrior. There are several reasons for this: no expertise/smaller energy pool/2pips of regen mean you cannot maintain an effective presence on the battlefield with a bow for more than a few seconds, with a maximum of 12 in any of the rangering attributes your damage per second will be lower if even just with standard attacks than with a melee weapon, warrior skills and primary attributes dont lend themselves to this build very well. In general warrior is going to be a bit less flexible in the playing to secondary profession topic just by its very nature of being designed to be the extreme melee class, only thing funnier is an elementalist with a hammer.... Warrior primary attribute is a tad weak in its intrinsic effects in some ways also giving 10% armor piercing just doesnt help if you aren't swinging away. Many combinations however ARE very effective, and contribute to team function and effectiveness. Ranger's primary reduces skills energy cost and can be applied to many other professions (including warrior), necro soul reaping has some great uses, even rit/necro splody minions are really cool (great crossover build using animate bone minions, explosive growth, death nova, putrid explosion...) and elementalists energy storage and 4 regen pips makes up for a lot of things, just not good armor and standing in melee range. With the exception of the geomancer tank hmm... Last edited by lennymon; Sep 13, 2006 at 09:01 AM // 09:01..

Sep 13, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35	#2
I Mean I Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: in my guild hall afk Guild: Ar Vin Pvp[AMp] Profession: R/	Loooooooong time ago an idiot thought the same thing he got he pve ranger and put him full blood magic... He called him "Touchy Ranger".

Sep 13, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35	#3
Wrath Of Dragons Burninate Stuff Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Mexico Profession: E/Mo	i give you a few examples examples Warrior/ele nuker <---no. Assassin/ranger barrager <----yes mes/ele <---yes ele/mo healer <----so/so ranger/necro MM <---no basically, choose skills that are within the means of your primary. dont use high-energy skills on a melee class, except for specific purposes(ie. shock) and dont tank with a squishie unless you are very careful (dark aura necros seem decent)

Sep 13, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24	#4
gamecube187 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2006	Some people say that you should only use a classes secondary to improve its primary skills, not teh other way around, but have you ever heard of a critical barrager (A/R that uses a bow and critical strikes) or a touch ranger (R/N that uses life stealing touch skills)? They are both very good and used a lot.(and according to most people noob builds because they are supposedly hard to counter, or at least the touch ranger one is....haven't they heard of mesmers and interupts/anti-casting spells? ) It really just comes down to Are you someone who is willing to try using secondaries more than primaries? If you answered yes, then maybe you should look into it.

Sep 13, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20	#5
Zakarr Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Finland	Some professions are more suitable for different roles than other professions. Warriors have highest armor by default and least energy. Also their skills are mainly for melee attacks so there is not much options to use them at background. Using secondary as primary is sometimes good especially if you use also your primary profession's attribute. If you don't use any of them, secondary is just a weaker version of its primary profession.

Sep 13, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30	#6
vinegrower Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: Song of the Forsaken Profession: E/	Look inside the CD case for Prophecies, you will find a warrior attacking a bone dragon with a bow.

Sep 13, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40	#7
dgb Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	Personally I don't care what you do in PvE, it's your call. In PvP it is really frustrating to see a warrior pull out a bow, or start casting meteor shower or any other such garbage. I don't have a choice about being on your team, at least do the rest of your team a favour by running a build that is effective. If you want to poison people, go a ranger. It will be far more efficient. Roll up a PvP character and play one. If it's a character that is as/more effective as the primary, then I don't care, thumpers and touch rangers are good examples here. But I take issue with someone purposely gimping himself and his team just so he can see his warrior shoot a bow.

Sep 13, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55	#13
majoho Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Denmark	As long as you're not gimping yourself I think it's fine - some combos don't make sense at all but other combos work very well. Most of those using their secondaries well do so because they rely on the primarys primary attribute - as is the case with touch rangers and crit-barrage assassins.

Sep 13, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05	#14
Immaculata Regina Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Netherlands Guild: DVDF Profession: W/	I had great fun using my Warrior as a minion master in the Northern Shiverpeaks, with a lot of effort I could maintain about 2 bone fiends. It worked reasonably well against opponents who were 10 levels lower than me and was fun to play .

Sep 13, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30	#16
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	Apply Poison works with any weapon. Cyclone Axe anyone. :P

Sep 13, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57	#17
Saiguku Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2006	I don't really care about Primary/Secondary, I used to play as a Ranger on my R/Mo and on my Rt/R. Like you said: you paid for it, you can play it as you want. Except: DON'T in Urgoz, I was on my Monk and we were looking for a tank. Ok, we find a Warrior and go...Only to find out 1 minute later he uses a bow.

Sep 13, 2006, 01:07 PM // 13:07	#19
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	High end GvG is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than PvE. You want your ele's to be dealing damage, or providing wards. If your monks can't handle the healing, find different monks.

Sep 13, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19	#20
Cebe The 5th Celestial Boss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Inverness, Scotland Guild: The Cult of Scaro [WHO] Profession: E/	I feel that characters should be played as the player wants to...but if it is going to affect anyone else they should let them know. I have, on rare occaisons, been known to use my E/N to go MM when someone has been desperately wanting an MM in a team and there are no Necros to be found. I know I don't make a good MM...I don't expect to, hence I only ever do it when a group leader will not shut up about it. But Wrath of Dragons is correct with what they said in post #3...not all secondarys can be used as primary because it just wouldn't work. A while ago I witnessed an incredible sight. A Mo/W, in Zen Daijun, weilding an axe, tanking. Now, they may have been able to heal themselves but monk healers can be few and far between at the best of times...so behaviour like that is very selfish! Personally, given the choice, I will always go with my primary profession, just because I chose Ele to play Ele...not to play Necro. If you're a Mo/W and want to tank...just be a Warrior!